Posts by Disillusioned JW

25

UFO's or Unidentified Aerial Fenomena....

by mikeflood in

what do you guys think....the topic seems to being on fashion lately.

some in the borg told me one time "of course, they are for real, they could be angels, demons".. .

Disillusioned JW

There is an interesting news article about this subject at https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2021/06/04/ufo-report-explained-government/ .

9

Time Indefinite

by StephaneLaliberte in

from a very young age, i was always annoyed by this translation time indefinite simply means: time that has not been defined.

where the new world translation uses "time indefinite", other translations use "everlasting" and "eternal".

honestly, it makes much more sense to me "everlasting" and "eternal" as "time indefinite" would leave room for god to define that time later on.

In a number of respects, the changes in the wording in the new NWT make the 2013 NWT more like leading Bibles of "Christendom", such as the NIV and NRSV. Even adding the book summaries, the pictures as part of study helps, and the front page where a person can write his/her name makes it more like the Bibles of the "churches". One example of a change is the removal of brackets there were around words that were there to supposedly "complete the sense in the English text".

5

It looks like the WATCHTOWER—STUDY EDITION (SIMPLIFIED)'s last issue was December 2018

by Disillusioned JW in

i looks like the last issue of the "watchtower—study edition (simplified)" (at least in english) was the december 2018 issue - see https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/?contentlanguagefilter=en&pubfilter=ws&yearfilter= .

did anyone else notice that?.

Disillusioned JW

I looks like the last issue of the "WATCHTOWER—STUDY EDITION (SIMPLIFIED)" (at least in English) was the December 2018 issue - see https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/?contentLanguageFilter=en&pubFilter=ws&yearFilter= . Did anyone else notice that?

50

Completing the Scan of All WT Publications - Bibles List

by ILoveTTATT2 in

jw
friends

i am working with paul grundy from jwfacts and with the administrator of avoidjw.org, and they are ok with me doing the work that i am doing right now, which is to try and complete, as much as possible, the availability of everything the wt has ever published, in pdf format.therefore, i will start listing in this thread what i have not been able to find anywhere online.

please let me know where i can find the pdf's for the following:(now, i know that there are multiple versions of these and that there are some that seem the same but they are not.

i am looking for the wt published versions of these publications.

Disillusioned JW

There probably are two different versions/editions of the 1950 edition New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures (but with the earliest edition published for only a very brief period of time). I think that because of the following. I have one which on the copyright page says "COPYRIGHT, 1950" without saying what edition (such as First, Second, Revised, 1951, etc.) it is and without mentioning what printing it is. In that one the Appendix on page 786 has paragraphs saying that 1 John 5:7, 8 contain spurious wording. The 1951 revised edition also says that in the Appendix. But at one time I saw (and I think I once owned) a 1950 edition which did not have that content about 1 John 5:7, 8 in the Appendix. I thus think there were two 1950 editions. There was also an edition prior to 1951 which said "Second Edition". For example the 1951 WT book called "What Has Religion Done for Mankind?" in its list of Bible translations used says regarding the New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures, that it quotes in the book, that it is the "2nd edition". I noticed that some of the quotes from that 2nd edition have different wording than that used in the 1951 revised edition and different from my copy of the 1950 edition.

The 1963 compilation edition of the 6 volumes used the 1951 revised edition. But their are some differences from that 1963 edition in comparison with the prior individual six volume. I noticed that many of the maps from those volumes were excluded in the compilation edition (which page 608 of the Proclaimers book says was a "special students' edition") and there were some other differences. But a number of the WT books (such as the "Life Everlasting" book) which in the back advertised the compilation edition inaccurately said that edition (which was called the "Large-Print" edition) "contains the original edition of the" NWT.

The 1942 WT KJV (I think my copy is the 1942 edition but it doesn't say "1942" on the title page or copyright page) besides having the scripture text, chapter summaries, cross references, and marginal notes of a Holman edition of the KJV also contains WT specific content. The page prior to the contents page is headed "Important Explanation" and one thing it mentions is 'JEHOVAH: Wherever the words "GOD" and "LORD" occur in all capital letters, the name in the original Hebrew is Jehovah".' In the back there is a section called "God's Word on Vital Subjects" which has a list of quotes of scripture texts (including from non-KJV translations) pertaining to WT doctrines and practices, such as "Ordination", "Commission to Preach", and "Manner of Preaching". After that section are 4 maps prepared by the WT.

The WT's ASV has a Concordance which was prepared by the WT (the Proclaimers book says it was prepared by the WT). The Proclaimers book says that the WT ASV was the first to include a concordance to the ASV, but that claim of the WT is false. I have more than one copy of a "Teacher's Edition" (one which includes scripture cross-references, unlike the one published by the WT) of the ASV published by Thomas Nelson & Sons. That edition has a Bible encyclopedia/dictionary and a concordance of the ASV (American Revised Bible, Standard Edition) along with it and its concordance has more than twice as many pages as the WT's. That concordance by Thomas Nelson says "Copyright, 1900, By Thomas Nelson & Sons" and thus clearly was published long before the WT, thus the WT's was not the first. The WT's printed edition of the ASV includes 4 maps prepared by the WT.

The KJV, ASV, and Byington Bible included on the WT's online library seems to exclude all of the alternate readings, all of the alternate renderings, and all of the footnotes/end notes of the WT's print editions of those Bibles.

70

Report Card : How’s President Biden Doing?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i give him an f for falling down on the job..

Disillusioned JW

News: "Biden announces a new plan to narrow the racial wealth gap including $100 billion more in federal contracts to small businesses and rules to end housing discrimination". That sounds very good to me. See https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/biden-announces-a-new-plan-to-narrow-the-racial-wealth-gap-including-100-billion-more-in-federal-contracts-to-small-businesses-and-rules-to-end-housing-discrimination/ar-AAKAWqL?ocid=msedgntp for the news article.

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Disillusioned JW

carla, I noticed you said "you are still at it, trying to convince people there is no god." If by that statement you are saying that when I was a JW I was trying to convince people there is no god, then you are mistaken. JWs believe that Jehovah God exists, though they don't believe that God is a Trinity. While I was a JW I sometimes tried to convince people that the Trinity doctrine is false, but while I was I JW (and hence a God-believer) I did not try to convince people there is no god/God. Jehovah's Witnesses bear witness about Jehovah being God and the JWs teach that Jehovah is the one true God (though they also admit that according to the Bible Jesus is a god in some sense of the word 'god')..

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Disillusioned JW

In my prior post when I said "... in my neighbor to promote ..." I meant to say '... in my neighborhood to promote...". Where I said "If only back then I had enough ever read atheistic and freethinker literature, I would very likely had never become baptized as a JW" I meant to say 'If only back then I had enough nerve to read atheistic and freethinker literature, I would very likely had never become baptized as a JW".

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Disillusioned JW

Hi carla. Yes I am still 'at it' in regards to trying to convince people of that which I (at the moment at least) believe/think/know is true. Truth is very important to me. I want human society to embrace truth, to leave behind superstitions, and to move forward. Those are some of my values. I had those values as a JW and I have them now. I even went door-to-door one day in my neighbor to promote atheism and naturalism to people. On another day I set up a display of atheistic books about 20 feet away from where JWs had their witnessing carts set up.

When I was a JW I witnessed begrudgingly out of a sense of duty. But the pro-atheism witnessing I do now I do so due to strong compelling desire and due to strong conviction. That is partly because what I have now was chosen freely by me - without psychological pressure or manipulation - and because I perceive the harm the WT religion, and belief in supernaturalism in general, has done. I also imagine how prosperous human society would be today if it had given up supernaturalism and superstition 1,000 years ago or even 300 years ago. Do you see now why I care if people believe or not?

It should be kept in mind though that I become a JW in large part because I was raised from infancy in the JW religion by my JW parents and by my mother's JW parents. But even then, when I was contemplating getting baptized as a JW I had serious doubts about the religion (including its teaching that biological evolution is false). If only back then I had enough ever read atheistic and freethinker literature, I would very likely had never become baptized as a JW. The expectations of the JW religion (such as the expectation during JW meetings to give answers that are in agreement with JW teachings) hindered me from properly questioning and critiquing the religion. I got baptized at age 15. If I had first learned of the religion after age 18 I probably would never had become a JW.

But, regarding Naturalism and Humanism I question them and don't force myself to accept all of their ideas. I try to follow the evidence to wherever it leads. I challenge my ideas/beliefs and test them, from time to time. I only accept those ideas of Naturalism and Humanism that seem correct to me. For example, I ponder the implications of (and the purported proof of) whether or not our universe (as well as space and time) truly had a beginning.

Though I agree with many elements of Humanism (and there are many competing definitions of Humanism given by various Humanists) I don't agree with all of the ideas of Humanism. I don't feel comfortable with some of the values of the most common forms of Humanism (including the idea of abortions of human embryos and fetuses being considered a moral right and even a good thing). Around the year 2010 I started calling myself a Humanist, but a few years ago I stopped identifying myself by the label of Humanist. I don't fully agree with some of the political views that are bundled in various concepts of Secular Humanism. In the year 2009 (or 2010) I started identifying myself as a Naturalist and non-theist, and in 2010 (or 2011) I also identified myself as an atheist (a positive/strong atheist, not merely the agnostic type) and I have continued to identify as a Naturalist, a non-theist, and an atheist.

The idea of Naturalism is less complicated than that of Humanism and as a result I relate more to Naturalism than to Humanism. I do not belong to any atheist, Naturalist or Humanist organization, though I have some association with some organizations of them. [But for politically practical reasons I do currently belong to a political party.] Thomas Paine said regarding himself the following: "My own mind is my own church." I say that "I have no church and no religion. My mind is my own belief-system."

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Disillusioned JW

"Ninth, Humanism believes in the complete social implementation of reason and scientific method; and thereby in democratic procedures, and parliamentary government, with full freedom of expression and civil liberties, throughout all areas of economic, political, and cultural life.

Tenth, Humanism, in accordance with scientific method, believes in the unending questioning of basic assumptions and convictions, including its own. Humanism is not a new dogma, but is a developing philosophy ever open to experimental testing, newly discovered facts, and more rigorous reasoning.

Human beings, using their own intelligence and cooperating liberally with one another, can build an enduring citadel of peace and beauty upon this earth.

—Corliss Lamont, from The Philosophy of Humanism, 1990"

See also https://www.ihumanism.org/2012/05/a-humanist-you-should-know-corliss-lamont.html which has an article called "A Humanist You Should Know: Corliss Lamont".

If one looks up the publications quoted in the WT books, and looks for other literature published by those authors (especially authors who are convinced of evolution and who do not believe in personal god or even the supernatural), one can learn many great and wondrous things and discover great truths.

People, if you are looking for an ideology to move to, explore scientific naturalism (a key component of secular humanism). You can discover real truth to replace the falsely called truth of the WT/JW religion.

99

If not the WT/JW relgion where else are 'we' to go? Why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism?

by Disillusioned JW in

sometimes jws wonder if the wt/jw is not the truth, 'then where else are we to go?

' i say 'why not atheistic/scientific philosophical naturalism and why not a secular philosophy which teaches a way of life?

' what do you folks say?.

Disillusioned JW

The 1974 WT book called Is This Life all there is? on page 68 quotes a book by Corliss Lamont called The Illusion of Immortality. An edition (from 1936) of that book can be read online at https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.222482 . I invite JWs and other Christians to have a look at that book.

Corliss was a socialist who wrote literature promoting socialism and who successfully resisted McCarthy and the C.I.A. He was also convinced of evolution, was a Humanist, and he wrote the book called Humanism As A Philosophy (later called The Philosophy of Humanism). The Second Edition of that book, bearing the copyright date of 1949, can be read at https://archive.org/details/humanismasphilos00lamo . I invite JWs and other Christians to read that book - much of what it says is very good. It makes a good case for a number of the ideas of Humanism. In his book he says that the type of Humanism he writes about has "eight central propositions". Regarding them he says the following:

First, Humanism believes in a naturalistic cosmology 
or metaphysics or attitude toward the universe that 
rules out all forms of the supernatural and that regards 
Nature as the totality of being and as a constantly chang- 
ing system of events which exists independently of any 
mind or consciousness. 

Second, Humanism, drawing especially upon the proven 
facts of science, believes that man is an evolutionary prod- 
uct of this great Nature of which he is part and that he

is an inseparable unity of body and personality having 
no individual survival beyond death. 

Third, Humanism believes that human thinking is as 
natural as walking or breathing, that it is indivisibly 
conjoined with the functioning of the brain, and that 
ideas, far from existing independently in some separate 
realm, arise and have reality only when a complex liv- 
ing organism such as man is interacting with its environ- 
ment and is intellectually active. 

Fourth, Humanism believes that man has the power 
and potentiality of solving his own problems successfully, 
relying primarily on reason and scientific method to do 
so and to enlarge continually his knowledge of the truth.

Fifth, Humanism believes, in opposition to all theories 
of universal predestination, determinism or fatalism, that 
human beings possess true freedom of creative action and 
are, within reasonable limits, the masters of their own 
destiny. 

Sixth, Humanism believes in an ethics or morality 
that grounds all human values in this-earthly experiences 
and relationships; and that holds as its highest loyalty 
the this-worldly happiness, freedom and progress — eco- 
nomic, cultural and ethical — of all mankind, irrespec- 
tive of nation, race or religion. 

Seventh, Humanism believes in the widest possible 
development of art and of the awareness of beauty, in- 
cluding the appreciation of external Nature, so that the 
aesthetic experience may become a pervasive reality in 
the life of men.

Eighth, Humanism believes in a far-reaching social 
program that stands for the establishment throughout the 
world of democracy and peace on the foundations of a 
flourishing and cooperative economic order, both national 
and international.

These eight points embody Humanism in what I be- 
lieve is its most acceptable modem form. This philosophy 
can be more explicitly characterized as scientific Human- 
ism, secular Humanism, naturalistic Humanism or dem- 
ocratic Humanism, depending on the emphasis that one 
wishes to give. Whatever it be called. Humanism is the 
viewpoint that men have but one life to lead and should 
make the most of it in terms of creative work and hap- 
piness; that human happiness is its own justification and 
requires no sanction or support from supernatural sources; 
that in any case the supernatural, usually conceived of 
in the form of heavenly gods or immortal heavens, does 
not exist; and that human beings, using their own intel- 
ligence and cooperating liberally with one another, can 
build an enduring citadel of peace and beauty upon this 
earth.